I am in the process of replacing...

[mr300z87]

   I am in the process of replacing 1 of the 2 blowers in our new to us 1990 Sea Ray 310 sundancer.  Both were working but 1 makes a horrible screeching when turned on.  Before removal I ran them and noticed that 1 draws air out of the bilge and the other (the one I'm replacing) draws fresh outside air in.  Is this correct?  The out blower has a tube going down low in the bilge (tube needs to be replaced also) as I would expect.  The in blower had no tubing after it in the direction of air flow.  It looks like there may have been a tube also going low into the bilge.  With safety being very important I want to put this back the way it should be.

Note the blowers are not easy to get at but with the exhaust off at the moment now is the time to get this back to the way it needs to be.

Any advice is greatly appreciated 

Mike

[Stressbreaker]

On my 1990 390EC both bilge blowers exhaust air out of the bilge. If the blower was wired wrong (positive on the negative side) then the blower would rotate in the wrong direction!

[wingless]

+1

The engine room blowers must suck air from down low (lowest point) and exhaust to the exterior.

This is a safety / compliance issue, because gasoline vapors (even though they shouldn't exist) are heavier than air and will settle at the lowest point.

The bilge blower system is required to suck out those vapors.

Note it also is required after fueling the boat.

1) Everything off and closed
2) Fuel boat
3) Inspect for gasoline vapors
4) Run blowers (I always start mine after fueling, while paying)
5) Start engine

[mr300z87]

I understand and use the blowers as they are designed. I posted here because I assumed both blow out but what I found 1 in and 1 out. Of course I have no idea who has been in there before. The wire crimps looked factory Sea Ray and it was wired correctly.

I did find this on Boat US web site.

"The best plan is usually to have two blowers, one to blow air out and the other to suck outside air into the engine space. However great care must be taken that the outside air intake is free of CO and other fumes."

I picked up some new 4" tube today to Start putting things back together and make it as safe.

The out going blower tube definitely used to go low in the bilge I can see the mounting traps. Ill put it back that way. It exits through one of the starboard vents. The incoming blower went to the other starboard vent. No hose after the blower existed nor can I see any mount straps. There is a 3rd hose coming from one of the port vents not sure where this one ended as it was shedded and hanging. I can install new blower either way just want to make it right

[wingless]

FWIW, when I bought and operated my boat in New England I used it many years in all types of boating in that area and never had ANY vapor lock issues until I started operating in southern Florida.

Then I discovered it would ALWAYS vapor lock if operating, then stopped for about an hour. The ONLY way to prevent vapor lock was to crack open the engine room hatch when stopping, not possible w/ onboard guests sitting in that area.

My solution was to design an install a custom heat exhaust system, w/ a second set of thermostatically controlled blowers, sucking / exhausting to the exterior, hot air from up high, above the engines, monitoring the temperature at that point.

This has worked 100% of the time, all year round, operating in sub tropical water and air temperatures in southern Florida.

The audible noise from those thermostatically controlled blowers can be heard to cycle during idle operation and when the engines are stopped. Worst case is about 50% on, so it has ZERO issue regulating the engine room temperature.

Sooo, my boat now has four exhausts, plus two engines sucking fresh air through the engine room. (On a quiet day you can hear the hull groaning from the flex stress...)

[wingless]

"The out going blower tube definitely used to go low in the bilge I can see the mounting traps. Ill put it back that way. It exits through one of the starboard vents. The incoming blower went to the other starboard vent. No hose after the blower existed nor can I see any mount straps. There is a 3rd hose coming from one of the port vents not sure where this one ended as it was shredded and hanging. I can install new blower either way just want to make it right."

Mine doesn't have any incoming blowers or incoming ducts, just the fresh air screens.

The factory built mine w/ two exhausts to the exterior, each one sucking from below an engine, from the lowest point.

Note that Sea Ray uses a waaay cool blower module that provides the VERY low blower current protection PLUS causes the helm rocker switch indicator to flash during a fault, such as a stalled rotor.

When I added my new thermostatic exhaust I used individual in line fuses to conform w/ the manufacturer's over current specification.

FWIW, my boat also has a custom high volume / high pressure air compressor for the Kahlenberg cruise ship horns and whistles. That includes a custom fresh air cooling system, dumping directly on the cylinder head. That is so effective that I can hand hold the head while the compressor is running. Here is my custom air compressor system.

https://trainhornforums.com/t/wingless-marine-air-system/

[wingless]

Here is the interior of the fresh air inlet, port side. I have an identical open / screened inlet on the starboard side.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/950/27156144347_bd9f91c84e_z.jpg

That is the inside of those long scallops that exist on both sides.

The front of each is for fresh air inlet, the rear of each has exhaust hoses.

Mine was built w/ two exhaust hoses, now has four exhaust hoses.

[ngaydazng7]

I just had my carburetor upgraded to an electric choke from Rochester Marine (ebay was have price) is supposed to fix vapor lock but its not hot enough yet to test it

[wingless]

Confused as to how an electric choke can affect vapor lock. What are the thoughts behind that fix?

[mr300z87]

Fyi this thread is about putting blower vent system back together. Wingless explained how he vented his bilge to prevent vapor lock. I live in NJ and have never had vapor lock issues on any boat I owned.

Last weekend I installed the new in line blower drawing air out as everybody here and on other forums suggested. I then installed new hose going down low in front of each engine. There were holding straps in place from original tubing. It now seems to be back the way sea ray originally installed it. I based this on securing straps I found and photos I got from a member of another forum. Exhaust is still not connected only for ease of access behind the engines.

Today we are headed to the boat for final prep and shrink wrap removal. Marina want to splash me on Wednesday 4/20.

[wingless]

mr300z87,

My recollection is that when I updated the blowers I also needed to remove the engine exhaust to permit my convoluted body sufficient access to contort into position.

A second person was also required on the exterior for connecting to the flange on the side scallop panels.

Makes sense that the cooler water / air up north prevents the vapor lock problem. That was my experience, until I started boating in the bath water temperatures.

[Motorvader]

Per ABYC standards, bilge blowers shall be installed with ducts whose intake openings are:
- permanently fIxed,
- located in the lower one-third of the compartment.
- above the normal level of accumulated bilge water, and
- as nearly as practicable below the engine(s) which it serves.
Looks like the one is missing a flex hose.

[mr300z87]

Wingless, I agreed about the exhaust. Prior to this boat I had a Sundancer 250 with a 7.4L I/O and it was easy access to almost everything. This boat not so much. Lol. She is all back together now and ready for splash this coming Wednesday.

Motorvader, I put the vent system back the way if was. The tubes both go down in front of the engines as shown in my photo. The one by the port motor (right in photo) is tie wrapped to the steering strut at the moment because the original strap that screws to the stringer is gone. This makes is slightly higher than the starboard tube. This will be fixed as soon as time permits.

There are 2 tubes that come from the port side vents to allow fresh incoming air. They end in the bilge above the port muffler. I can not see any remnants of where they go beyond that.

As of now I have 2 working blowers doing their job drawing air out of the bilge and it is way better than it was with a noisy blower an no tubing.

[Motorvader]

Congrats! ABYC is great resource for baot DIY'ers.

In addition to running the blowers for a full 5 minutes regardless what anyone at the fuel dock has to say I like to raise my engine hatch for a couple of minutes after refueling to get some fresh air in the ER and check for fumes or fuel leaks.

[Motorvader]

Excuse me, boat DIY'ers!

[mr300z87]

Just a quick update. The blowers and tubing has been installed and tested, both drawing air out of the bilge. Boat has
been launched and is safe and sound in her slip, although she is kinda lonely as there are only a few boats in so far. With the water still at 55 degrees it not really boating season in NJ yet unless your fishing. Thanks for all the comments.

[Motorvader]

Congrats on a successful project. Most of my boating life was on Long Beach Island, NJ so I fully understand it "not being boating season yet". Many a cold, rainy Memorial Day weekend spoiled our holiday boating plans! I'm now in Largo, FL less than 2 miles from the beach and my marina so boating season is about 90% of the year. I miss the full service marinas and boat yards in NJ and the "marina life" culture - wet slip marinas are less common down here due to the extreme marine growth (mostly for boats 34' and up). Most people have boats 33' and under and store them on a "high and dry" marina rack space or boat lift get down here. We lose that summer boater comradery at the marina. Plan to summer up North when I retire!

[Motorvader]

My "new to me" 2001 310 Sundancer has been waiting for service since beginning of April when I had it shipped down from SC. Marina is replacing all manifolds and risers, installing new PPS Pro shaft seals and sealing all of the hatches and portlights. This freshwater boat was one of the few I looked at that didn't have a damp molding interior and I want to keep it that way. I can't wait to get back out on the water!

[mr300z87]

Here is a photo of her. We spent most of the weekend there doing oil changes and repairing her Nav lights. Motorvader I spent my teenage years (most of the 80s ) on LBI, my parents owned a house across from Nardie's Tavern, I was actually there a couple of weeks ago to see a friend.

We keep our boat in the Tom's River our slip is CHEAP, most of the slips in our marina are privately owed (we rent) but there are no services other than a BR and Shower. It is a really nice community of boater, only down side is no pets allowed and we have dogs that we want to bring boating with us. unfortunately unless they change policy we will be looking for a new slip next year.

I too have a ton of the same stuff your working on, I changed exhaust before launch, also sealed up a couple of the bow rail mounts. I also found the anchor locker to be very nasty and was extremely damp, we have since left the mirror in the v-berth open and a damp rid container to help it dry out.

For the shaft seals, my boat has been equipped with Tides Marine seals, they have a carrier available that mounts to the shaft and hold up to 3 replacement seals that can be installed with out shaft/coupling removal. You should look into them before committing to the PSS. One of the previous owner had these installed on my boat. Good luck with your new toy.

[Motorvader]

Very familiar with Nardie's. Met my wife at a labor day weekend dock party in Beach Haven - proposed to her at waterfront bench near the same marina. Haven't been there since year before Sandy. Kept our boat at Sunset Marina in Brant Beach. Great memories of hot fresh donuts from Marvel's Market, bagels and crumb cake from Bageleddi's and great meals at the Engleside Inn, Terrace Tavern and Kube's. In all honesty this is my 2nd boat with Tides shaft seals and I'm done with leaks and changing out lip seals. PSS are essentially maintenance free. Small world - we were considering a move from Middletown to Toms River a year before we moved to FL.

[Motorvader]

By the way, very nice boat, Our favorite spot to hang out was Tice's Shoal. Below are photos of Marinemax's 2008 Aquapalooza event that was held there. There were about 500 boats there that day!

[Motorvader]

We cruised up to 70 miles from Brant Beach in our Sea Ray 215. This was our first "family" boat.

[mr300z87]

Those are familiar waters, been to tices many times it can be totally crazy there these days. Alot of police presence are needed because it can get out of control. We generally go a mile or 2 north to Governor's Cove, it less crowded and 15 minutes closer, plus that is where our marina friends go. With the price of gas today we will most likely be staying in the River. There are a handful of coves to drop anchor and hang. All less than 5 miles from slip.
I spent my teenage years tearing up little egg harbor in my 15 ft Glastron v156 trihull. We would look for the 30 + ft sea rays to jump their wakes? Wish I still had it they are worth a few bucks today.
Do you remember a marina called the Dock, in Beach Haven my friend worked there renting stand up jet skis and their fleet of fishing Garveys and ski boats. Those were the good old days. He now owns a condo on the island (he and I had lunch at Nardies 2 weeks ago) across from kubel II which closed last year and is now an empty lot expecting 10 condos to be built. It's been 30 years plus since my parents sold my house, they are still with us, but I haven't yet forgiven them. Lol. Home prices there are out of control so a 33 ft floating condo was the next best thing. If we can swing it this year we want to plan transient slip at shelter harbor marina for a week. I'll even make our daughter bring us a car although we could live on LBI for a week with just bicycles. Lol. Sorry for my ramble but you got me down memory lane, I am now 56 yrs old, I still love LBI and take every opportunity I can to go there. Unfortunately my wife being from the suburbs of Philadelphia, makes us vacation in Ocean City NJ, it nice but it's not LBI. OC was way to far from where I grew up, Clark 135 on the GSP. Have a great day. Mike

[Motorvader]

Memory lane for me as well. I just turned 60 in March. My love of LBI started with my dad and uncles renting garveys to fish Barnegat bay and grandfather taking me out on party boats like Carolyn Ann III, Snoopy, Miss Barnegat Light, etc.. He also has friends with charter boats and occasionally let me tag along (fishing is serious business on a charter boat). There used to be a pancake place of there were we would get breakfast. I eventually stopped getting seasick and it was a lot more fun. I agree, Ocean City, NJ is a boardwalk beach - not the sense of community that LBI has. I'm from Philly as well but prefer LBI because that's was my definition of the Jersey shore growing up. I don't specifically remember The Dock - I think it might have become Polly's? Home prices in FL are starting to outpace LBI if you can believe it - a 12K SF home on Clearwater beach is selling for $18 million (pricier than Loveladies or Harvey Cedars!). We moved down to FL in 2011 just before Sandy. We lived in Middletown, NJ - exit 117 on GSP. Enjoy your weekend Mike! Bob

[mr300z87]

We could have been hanging out and didn't even know it. LOL. I remember renting 15 ft fishing boats with my dad from Polly's Dock. Polly's might even still be there. The Dock was a small full service marina on around 28th - 30st in Beach Haven, next to Southwicks Marina. It went to Condos with some private slips in the late 80s. They rented Thunderbird Tri hull ski boats, stand up jet skis, and big inboard fishing garveys. The 80s were some good times as a 16 yr old boy. If you ever up this way Ill meet you at Nardie's.

[Motorvader]

For sure. This is getting very surreal - you and I need to meet up some time. The Dock is now Escape Harbor marina - I didn't know this until this evening when I saw that you mentioned it was next to Southwicks. The Dock was purchased by a guy name Tim Howard who also owned one of those condos. Are you ready for this, this is the marina where my best friend and I had our first "co-owned" boat, where there was Labor Day weekend dock party in 1987, where my friend had too much to drink later that night and around 11 PM jumped on the swim platform of a brand new 270 Sundancer and woke a 22 year old girl sleeping onboard alone, where my friend, his girl friend, me and this 22 year old girl went to the Terrace Tavern for more drinks after the dock party (referred to it as "church" within our circle of friends) where this 20 something year old hung out with me and we talked until 3 AM and where I proposed to marry her a little over a year later. This blows my mind! I'll meet you at Nardies, and then we can have dinner at the Terrace Tavern. Steve, the original owner who bought it in 1986 and we last saw about 10 years ago, is a huge Eagles fan. Hoping he's still alive and well - super nice guy. You are also welcome to visit if you're ever in the Clearwater area. By the way, my email address is [email protected]. Take care Mike!

[Motorvader]

West 32nd St. looking west.

[Motorvader]

Aerial view of Escape Harbor Marina with notations.

[Motorvader]

Mike, Thanks for bringing back some great memories. I provided my email to share some additional detail that I'd rather not share on this forum. LBI was our family's and close friend's happy place up until 2008.

[mr300z87]

Motorvader, I sent you an email same username as here at gmail.

[Motorvader]

Engine service is now underway. Marina confirmed today I will need new heat exchangers to get the full closed cooling system I want (old manifolds were raw water cooled). The good news is there were no surprises - the manifolds and risers were way over due even though the boat was kept in fresh water. This upgrade plus the new dry joint exhaust risers they're installing will make the exhaust and cooling system the same as 2004 Mercruiser engines. I'll end up saving money due to less frequent manifold replacement and have a much lover less risk of losing an engine due to failed exhaust components and water ingestion. With the new setup my only exhaust maintenance will be riser replacement every 3-4 years.

Shrink wrap just came off on Monday so I haven't had a chance to get PO's stuff off the boat. Not sure why they hung a hodge podge of different fenders like Christmas tree ornaments? Looks pretty silly!

You can also see the new Sunbrella mooring cover that just went on today. A full new canvas package including camper top is also on order. Can't wait to see it!

Marina's fiberglass and gel coat guy quoted repair of our swim platform (piling damage on the edge) and touch up all gel coat gouges. She will look new when he's done.

Also have the graphics guy coming over to put the new name and hailing port on. The PO's name makes me nauseous every time I see it. And yes, we will have an old school renaming and Christening ceremony complete with Champagne, prayer and offering to Poseidon. Poseidon offering will consist of a glass of Champagne and a steel plate with the old name on it thrown into the sea. It will be comforting to know the name is rusting away into oblivion.

[Motorvader]

Now you can see why the PO's name make's me nauseous!

[Motorvader]

Marina is also replacing Tides marine seals with PSS Pro seals, changing all engine and transmission fluids and anodes and sending the props out to General Propeller to remove dings and recondition them (reduces vibration from cruise to max. rpm).

[wingless]

When I replaced the original Tides Strong Seal w/ Tides Sure Seal, I changed from each seal having only one raw water hose barb to both having two raw water hose barbs.

That change permitted addition of a crossover hose so that the seals will have proper cooling if a fault requires operation w/ only one engine.

Each time I repaint the bottom I have my props tuned by Prop Scan to Class S. The first time was pricy, each additional time was normal cost. It was a huge improvement.