I have a 2000 34' Sundancer. Upon...

[twin_engine]

I have a 2000 34' Sundancer. Upon returning to FL., being away 2 months, I discovered the engine hatch will not lift. Each battery solenoid was turned off when I left. The port battery solenoid clicked on and shows 12+ volts. The starboard battery solenoid will not engage (no clicking sound) and the volt meter does not move. Turned on battery charger for 24 hours and still the same. The emergency start switch does not activate the hatch lift. So, I have to get in the engine room and check the batteries and solenoid. Advice is needed:  the hatch is very heavy so once it is pulled up, will it stay up and or need a support to hold it. Common sense says to prop it up. Any suggestions how to proceed. Thanks

[wingless]

It looks like the hatch lift is between the engines, making removal of the clevis pin difficult.

Yes the hatch is VERY heavy.

On my 2000 380DA the factory provided a prop rod that is useful when servicing the hatch lift.

Searches on-line did not reveal if that prop rod also exists on your boat.

My suggestions are to have 2x4 boards on-hand of various lengths to use as prop rods. It would also be handy to have board scraps to prevent full closure if the hatch closes suddenly.

The local dealership might be able to provide guidance. Examination of similar local boats might also be useful.

It might be possible to back feed w/ a good battery injected onto an accessible bus bar, to drive up the lift under power. Note there are two banks, so injection onto one might not access the bank powering the lift.

Please be careful and please report on progress.

https://images0.boattrader.com/resize/1/91/87/7129187_20190626103307194_1_LARGE.jpg?t=1307361

[twin_engine]

Thanks for the reply. You have been a big asset to this site. To even get to the bus bar, will require lifting the hatch quite high. One would think that something as important as the the engine hatch lifting, there would be a dedicated backup wiring that would power it. Does Searay have a technical support line or e-mail. Thanks again

[wingless]

Thanks for the kind words.

It was not possible for me to locate the wiring diagram for your boat.

My boat has multiple bus bars throughout the boat, including those in the engine compartment.

My boat has a bus bar set under the helm and another set behind the salon breaker panel, the helm connected to the port bank, the salon connected to the starboard bank.

Doesn't your boat also have these power distribution bus bars that would permit back feeding power into each bank?

[twin_engine]

Thanks again. I was thinking of connecting the positive line from a portable battery charger and grounding out the negative. I couldn't see the forest for the trees and was focusing on the main electrical panel that the batteries feed. This is located underneath where the hatch closes--at least as I recall. I am checking my manual for the other bus bars. My vessel has the port and the starboard split as well. I will see what the wiring diagram discloses. If I do not have one, then I will try behind the helm fuse panel, first. Under the helm are the pop out breakers. The salon panel turns on the DC cabin lights, ac converter, outlets etc. So power is going to those switches. The helm is where the hatch lift switch is located, as well as bilge pump, windless etc. -- none of which are working. I'll let you know how it goes. Tomorrow I 'll go through my manual and other vessel info. in search of the bus bars. But, I feel your vessel may be designed much like mine. When you say back feed are you speaking of connecting to a point on the bus bar where the positive power source enters it? (with a positive input)

[wingless]

YW

The Owner's Manual Supplement has the wiring diagram pages.

Correct, proper / safe injection of power at those remote bus bars to provide sufficient current to raise the hatch. Note that a good battery will provide MUCH more current than any portable battery charger.

Assuming our boats have similar wiring layout, my boat has bus bars for positive, negative and "Earth" ground at the helm and behind the salon breaker panel.

Those positive bus bars are on the Load side of the battery disconnect contactors, so sufficient power must exist to toggle those contactors to the ON position, if required. It might help to try the emergency start switch if toggling the disconnect contactors is difficult.

Note, the design of my boat doesn't have this potential problem, because I can manually remove the port floor panel, exposing the batteries and exposing the hatch lift disconnect clevis pin. All boats should have been designed w/ these features.

[twin_engine]

I was reviewing the manual supplement diagram this morning. Another great response by you. I will undertake the task next week, since we will be out of town until Wednesday. I'll go with a new battery, for introducing the power. The portable unit I am referring is a jump starter or emergency power supply, but I will not dabble with that, since there are so many electronics on the vessel.

[wingless]

Great plan for usage of a battery.

Remember that a battery may provide almost infinite current when shorted, so safety first.

When I was performing diagnosis on my refrigerator one step was bypassing the boat wiring, using a battery adjacent to the refrigerator.

During that step I used an in-line fuse for protection and used extreme care.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47943257146_cfa3703baa_b.jpg


http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/wingless-danfoss-bd50f-101n0500-refrigerator-problems-218711.html

[twin_engine]

Ok, advice taken. I will use an line fuse with correct amperage for each item tested. I prefer being safe than sorry -- so no short cuts--no pun intended

[wingless]

Given that you are getting a battery(ies) I will throw in my two cents on that subject.

For my application the most important aspect of the batteries are engine-off ampere-hour capacity. The biggest almost continuous current draw is the refrigerator at about 10A DC. Other loads kick on and off, but other than my ear bleeding loud stereo (I run the generator for that while on hook), the 'fridge is the biggest load.

The factory built my boat w/ five group 27 flooded cell batteries. When those got old I replaced them w/ five group 31 flooded cell. The group 31 tapers to smaller at the bottom, so they fit in the existing group 27 trays. I got REALLY tired of maintaining the electrolyte level, so I switched to AGM. I upgraded to six Lifeline GPL-31XT batteries, for more on-hook run time.

The Lifeline GPL-31XT is the only group 31 battery w/ the greatest ampere-hour capacity, at 125Ah. Every other battery is 100Ah or 105Ah.

There is zero reservation w/ me recommending this battery for the listed reasons.


https://lifelinebatteries.com/products/marine-batteries/gpl-31xt/


Also, check the on-board battery charger, it might not be performing properly.

[drsteves]

My 2008 Amberjack 290 came with an accessory cable the plug into a 12v socket and hook the other end to a 12v source. But, I never needed to use it yet!!

[SeaMax]

Have you tried using emergency start cross over to start engines and let the alternator do the charging? Some on board chargers will not charge a totally dead battery. If you’re hydraulic lift is like mine, you will have to dissengage it before lifting the hatch. There is a port on the rear of the hatch that can be removed to allow access to the point where the top of the cylinder attaches to the hatch. No easy job to do though.

[CaptainK]

Sometimes you can power the hatch by powering the fuse bus under the helm if you have it located there. On my 2003 340 the fuses for several of the accessories are there and another one is inside the hatch. If the batteries are totally dead, this might not provide enough juice to allow the power to backflow to the hatch switch. I ran wires and a switch up from the fuse panel for the hatch fuse to the inside of the rear seat. Whatever idiot engineer thought it would be a good idea to put the fuse for the hatch inside the hatch should be punched in the face. If the fuse trips I can bypass it and flip the switch to connect the wires together and I can use it to apply power if the batteries are dead and the hatch won't operate.

[Mike_T]

The hatch will not stay up once the pin is pulled and raised manually. You must support the hatch. I have a 2 x 4 that I cut to length which works great.

[Sutherin_Comfor]

Wow, every time I read this blog, I learn something new! My former Crownline had “remote battery posts” outside the hatch: VERY convenient! I have been disappointed that Sea Ray doesn’t offer this option, sooooo, I added my own to my Sea Ray 280 Sundancer.......very easy! My boat can go months without use so batteries often dead. I’ve been trying to figure out how I would get the hatch up with dead batteries. The hatch is very heavy, generally requiring two people. I have seen engine access hole but didn’t know what it’s purpose was...til now! Thanks! But, I still like remote battery posts so I don’t have to lift hatch! Sea Ray did add a support pole to be engaged every time someone is in engine compartment.

[wingless]

Yes, adding remote battery posts when they don't exist and when the batteries cannot be reached during hatch failure can be very useful.

If going that route, then ensure ABYC is followed and the end result is safe.

[Honey_Badger]

I have a 2000 340 as well. You can jump the starboard batteries from the back of the control panel with a separate battery just enough to open the hatch. No support necessary if you don’t disconnect the door.

[twin_engine]

Greetings Everyone, thanks for all the assistance in getting the hatch open. I will pass along a suggestion from a Searay Dealer, that Searay had contact me. I really appreciate the collective thought process from this forum, that in combination with Marine Max, made a monumental problem somewhat easier. Here is what I did: The 12 volt accessory receptacle on the lower helm (looks like a cigarette lighter receptacle) is a direct source to the electrical behind the breakers. I was told to shut off all power, then, with a fresh 12 volt battery, connect an accessory plug in, into the receptacle. I purchased a three foot plug in cable from amazon, 16 gauge 15 amp, the amazon part may also use a 20 amp. Just as an aside, the receptacle on the boat, limits any plug in to 15 amps. So that is, of course what I used. On the end of the red/black cable are round rings to connect to the battery post. To make them fit, I simply took a round file and opened the holes to fit over the post that take rings, with wingnuts or nuts, and tightened them down. I am not referring to the larger post that a battery cable fitting tightens around. I inserted the plug in into the receptacle, pressed the hatch switch and up it went, and stayed up. It also closes, if you are wondering. Before doing this I wrote the dealer again, asking what gauge wire I should use and if Searay has a fix for this poor design, otherwise am I to carry a fully charged battery in the cabin in case of an emergency? Well, no response was provided. Some of the responses from the group speak of remote battery post. I do not know what you are referring to, so please share those thoughts with me, in more detail. Also in looking in my supplement to the manual it shows the DC wiring for the starboard engine. In the diagram where the 12 volt accessory wire joins the main input line, there is a black dot, which may indicate the direct access to the main line without removing the panel. Best regards to all, a special thanks to wingless who stayed with this project from the beginning.

[wingless]

Great news and great update!

It is always rewarding when things work.

Glad to help.

[Sutherin_Comfor]

Awesome! My dealer told me I could open the hatch using a jump starter battery pack with a 12 V plug as you described but I wasn’t sure I believed him. Here’s a picture of the remote posts that Crownline puts in their boats, (nudge nudge , Sea Ray!)

[twin_engine]

I have opened and closed it several times, without any problems. It lifts as if it was being powered directly by the boat batteries. I did shut off all other power, as mentioned. Thanks for the photo, I have never seen one of those before, and it should be straight forward to wire it in. I don't understand why the manufacture with this hatch power design, simply did not wire in a crossover feed, bypassing one battery and operating off the the other. By the way, I used a new battery, that I will install after a new battery charger. I did not try a battery pack, then again the maximum input is 15 amps. If it works with the battery pack, please let me know and I will get one for a backup-- as we all learned what can go wrong will go wrong on the water, and at least if need be, I will be able to open the hatch.