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- Re: I have a small leak on my port...
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I have a small leak on my port...
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06-21-2020 05:29 AM
I have a small leak on my port side dripless on a 2000 SR410 with cat diesel. Anyone that has this configuration will know that the dripless is very hard to get at, tucked back in the V drive. Replacing it requires pulling the boat which I do not plan to do until winter storage. Given the difficulties in accessing it, I am wondering if anyone has had experience in moving the rotor a tiny bit inward to tighten the friction face. I realize there is a factory setting for tension of the bellows but after 20 years the bellows may be relaxing a bit and a little more pressure may stop the small leak so I have a perfectly dry bilge.
Second question, there is a selection of dripless available, anyone have a recommendation for the replacement when the time comes?
I have attached a picture to show the type of dripless I have.
18 REPLIES 18
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06-21-2020 07:08 AM
Not sure what is meant by "moving the rotor a tiny bit inward to tighten the friction face".
The image that was posted has been enhanced and is linked here.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50028853553_e3c0ce0cde_b.jpg
The image shows several things. One is that the valley of the blue hose has deteriorated, probably with age and usage, showing cracks in the valleys. The water ingress source is not clear in the image. There is water on the hose near the cracks and water on the hull under the cracks. IMO this hose condition is unacceptable. If the winter storage replacement plan is maintained, best of wishes that this hose does not become problematic before replacement.
The image shows all hose clamps aligned. On my boat I position the screw mechanism 180° apart, facing the opposite direction.
This appears to be a Tides SureSeal w/ a round cap and dual water ports.
https://www.tidesmarine.com/shaftseals/sure_vs_strong.php
Note that those hose ports are not correctly placed, according to the manufacturer, as linked below. That seal should be rotated 180°.
https://www.tidesmarine.com/shaftseals/before_ordering.php
There are two periodic tests that should be performed on these shaft seals. One is to remove the cooling water hose from the nipples while the boat is floating to verify raw water ingress, backwards through those nipples. The other is to cap off those disconnected nipples, start the engine and verify raw water supplied to the hose. The engine should supply 1 gallon per minute at 2 psi, minimum, at idle.
On my boat, I have a spare seal in a seal carrier, ready for replacement w/o yanking the boat. When I swap seals I put the fresh seal into the carrier and put that older spare seal into service.
Whenever I remove my shafts I polish the shafts, including at the seal location. The "easy" way to polish the shaft is to put it onto stepladder steps. I then use a long strip of fine emery paper holding at the ends and long back and forth motions, along the circumference and along the length, to ensure no flat spots.
Whenever I replace my seals I reposition the seal carrier hose, so the seal rides onto a different shaft position. I mark the hull tube at each hose location so I know the positions I've already used.
The Tides seal protector must be used whenever removing and replacing the shaft, to ensure the seal and the spare seal are not damaged by the shaft keyway edges.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50029500446_79694b4984_z.jpg
The image that was posted has been enhanced and is linked here.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50028853553_e3c0ce0cde_b.jpg
The image shows several things. One is that the valley of the blue hose has deteriorated, probably with age and usage, showing cracks in the valleys. The water ingress source is not clear in the image. There is water on the hose near the cracks and water on the hull under the cracks. IMO this hose condition is unacceptable. If the winter storage replacement plan is maintained, best of wishes that this hose does not become problematic before replacement.
The image shows all hose clamps aligned. On my boat I position the screw mechanism 180° apart, facing the opposite direction.
This appears to be a Tides SureSeal w/ a round cap and dual water ports.
https://www.tidesmarine.com/shaftseals/sure_vs_strong.php
Note that those hose ports are not correctly placed, according to the manufacturer, as linked below. That seal should be rotated 180°.
https://www.tidesmarine.com/shaftseals/before_ordering.php
There are two periodic tests that should be performed on these shaft seals. One is to remove the cooling water hose from the nipples while the boat is floating to verify raw water ingress, backwards through those nipples. The other is to cap off those disconnected nipples, start the engine and verify raw water supplied to the hose. The engine should supply 1 gallon per minute at 2 psi, minimum, at idle.
On my boat, I have a spare seal in a seal carrier, ready for replacement w/o yanking the boat. When I swap seals I put the fresh seal into the carrier and put that older spare seal into service.
Whenever I remove my shafts I polish the shafts, including at the seal location. The "easy" way to polish the shaft is to put it onto stepladder steps. I then use a long strip of fine emery paper holding at the ends and long back and forth motions, along the circumference and along the length, to ensure no flat spots.
Whenever I replace my seals I reposition the seal carrier hose, so the seal rides onto a different shaft position. I mark the hull tube at each hose location so I know the positions I've already used.
The Tides seal protector must be used whenever removing and replacing the shaft, to ensure the seal and the spare seal are not damaged by the shaft keyway edges.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50029500446_79694b4984_z.jpg
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06-29-2020 06:16 AM
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06-29-2020 06:34 AM
I agree with Wingless, I have lightened up the photo and it shows where the drip is from at the top. Look at the videos on YouTube about changing seals. In this photo it does show you have a spare. I have changed my seals in the water before but I would not suggest you do it unless you have mech. exp. and a good pump on board and close to a marina.
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06-29-2020 09:14 AM
SMT: Thanks for the input. I'm not sure what that drip at the top of the picture is, but it is above and not part the dripless. Also the leak cannot be from the articulating hose (as suggested by others) or it would leak all the time. I have placed paper towel under the dripless to identify exactly where the leak is. As mentioned, it is very small leak, about 1/2 gal per hour of running. I am going to have a mechanic look at it, I don't see a spare there but if there is one, that might be a good alternative. But as you inferred, this is a touchy situation and advance preparation to deal with a problem is necessary. Thanks
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06-29-2020 10:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIFuwnX_moE This is the video that should help.
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09-10-2020 02:14 PM
I am getting ready to pull the boat next month and want to get a drip-less ordered. I will use the Tides Marine. Problem I have is determining the shaft size. My manual says it is 1 3/4 - but I have an extra set of props and the shaft size there is 1 3/8". If at all possible I need to order the part before the boat is pulled. Has anyone done this on a 2000 410DA with Cat 3116 diesels and can verify exact size of shaft?
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09-10-2020 02:23 PM
If it were mine, then I would use a vernier caliper to directly measure the shaft diameter, between the transmission and the seal.
It may be that Tides Marine can identify the correct parts based on yacht information.
It may be that Tides Marine can identify the correct parts based on yacht information.
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09-10-2020 02:24 PM
My 2000 380DA w/ 454 Mercruiser Horizon has 1½" shafts, so NO WAY your shafts are 1-3/8" on a larger boat w/ diesel engines.
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09-10-2020 02:40 PM
Makes sense that my shafts would be larger. Measuring the shafts would solve the mystery, but can’t do that with boat in the water.
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09-10-2020 04:31 PM
There must be and there appears to be access to the shaft and the seal.
The previously linked seal protector must be used when removing / replacing a shaft past a seal that will be reused. If the protector is not used, then there is a possibility that the shaft keyway will nick the seal, preventing proper operation.
To that end, shaft removal / replacement is a two person operation. One person under the boat providing the motive force, following commands of the person under the engine, applying the protector first to the spare seal, until removed, then to the active seal. That sequence is reversed during shaft installation.
It looks like a spare seal (within a spare seal carrier) doesn't exist on this setup. Maybe it won't fit. Mine has more room between the seal and the transmission and mine has a spare seal in a carrier. Check w/ Tides Marine, because it could save having to yank the boat.
If this is the first time removing the shafts then it might be extra difficult. When I first removed my shafts I discovered each taper, on both propellers and on both couplers had a two point contact patch, diagonally opposite.
My solution to resolve this problem was to use lapping compound between the parts in 90, 320 and 500 grit. I lapped both propellers and both couplers to both shafts. Now each time I remove the parts I have a uniform contact patch on all the tapers. That first part separation was almost impossible. Now it is acceptable difficulty.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4654/40507538381_b0a121e3d3_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/4648/40507538291_b2ee90f6bb_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/4675/40465168122_4aaf8dffd9_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50029500446_79694b4984_z.jpg
The previously linked seal protector must be used when removing / replacing a shaft past a seal that will be reused. If the protector is not used, then there is a possibility that the shaft keyway will nick the seal, preventing proper operation.
To that end, shaft removal / replacement is a two person operation. One person under the boat providing the motive force, following commands of the person under the engine, applying the protector first to the spare seal, until removed, then to the active seal. That sequence is reversed during shaft installation.
It looks like a spare seal (within a spare seal carrier) doesn't exist on this setup. Maybe it won't fit. Mine has more room between the seal and the transmission and mine has a spare seal in a carrier. Check w/ Tides Marine, because it could save having to yank the boat.
If this is the first time removing the shafts then it might be extra difficult. When I first removed my shafts I discovered each taper, on both propellers and on both couplers had a two point contact patch, diagonally opposite.
My solution to resolve this problem was to use lapping compound between the parts in 90, 320 and 500 grit. I lapped both propellers and both couplers to both shafts. Now each time I remove the parts I have a uniform contact patch on all the tapers. That first part separation was almost impossible. Now it is acceptable difficulty.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4654/40507538381_b0a121e3d3_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/4648/40507538291_b2ee90f6bb_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/4675/40465168122_4aaf8dffd9_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50029500446_79694b4984_z.jpg
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09-11-2020 03:38 AM
Thanks but as mentioned, I want to determine shaft size before pulling the boat and that cannot be done without removing the articulating hose. Once the boat is out of the water, shaft size i easily measured. Your other points are appreciated.
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09-11-2020 06:30 AM
NP
A vernier caliper, as linked below, appears to fit in the gap between the seal and the transmission to measure the shaft diameter while the boat is floating. It looks like there is about an inch of shaft exposed. Is that incorrect?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50028853553_e3c0ce0cde_b.jpg
https://www.amazon.com/Sangabery-Stainless-Millimeter-Conversion-Measurement/dp/B08C6Z29CX/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=vernier+caliper&qid=1599830647&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExMFNSOVVXTFpCU0hWJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUExMDI3MzY3WEs0VkcyM0dBNExHJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTEwMDgzNTU1SU5YWEJMQVgwWFQmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
Otherwise, no problem measuring while on the hard.
A vernier caliper, as linked below, appears to fit in the gap between the seal and the transmission to measure the shaft diameter while the boat is floating. It looks like there is about an inch of shaft exposed. Is that incorrect?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50028853553_e3c0ce0cde_b.jpg
https://www.amazon.com/Sangabery-Stainless-Millimeter-Conversion-Measurement/dp/B08C6Z29CX/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=vernier+caliper&qid=1599830647&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExMFNSOVVXTFpCU0hWJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUExMDI3MzY3WEs0VkcyM0dBNExHJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTEwMDgzNTU1SU5YWEJMQVgwWFQmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
Otherwise, no problem measuring while on the hard.
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09-11-2020 09:09 AM
After another look, I was able to get my caliper in the 1/4" gap to measure the shaft. I didn't look close enough previously. Do you know how the shaft attaches to the transmission? For anyone with my exact make and model, the shaft is 1 3/4" and the aft tube is 3 1/2" with overall length of about 7 1/2".
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09-11-2020 09:09 AM
You have a CAT's ? What engine is it? I have 3126 Cats in my 450 Sundancer and Sure Seals. That is a Tides Marine Sure Seal their web is https://www.tidesmarine.com/shaftseals/ also google this address on video and it gives an overview of how to change the seal. You may have to re do seal unless itis really 20 years old. Then again you may only have to move the bellows a small amount.
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09-11-2020 09:14 AM
I have Cat 3116. I thought about moving the articulating tube but it is so tight that area that getting it lose is nearly impossible. I am going to replace the drip-less with Tides Sure seal which I already have on order. Once the boat is out of the water the change out should be pretty straight forward.
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09-11-2020 09:21 AM
I hauled my boat this spring. I replaced both seals and installed a spare on each. My port had no spare my starboard had a small drip and had a spare. Since I was doing the bottom I just had new seals put in and new spares. I like to travel to Marathon & Key West area and like to have spares when away from home. Wanted to do Bahamas but Hurrican and Covid canceled my plans. Good luck.
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09-11-2020 10:31 AM
Look at my previously linked images showing the transmission coupler.
On a vee drive transmission, the propeller shaft passes through the transmission. The forward face of the transmission has one half of the coupler. My linked images show the other half of the coupler.
On a vee drive transmission, the propeller shaft passes through the transmission. The forward face of the transmission has one half of the coupler. My linked images show the other half of the coupler.
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09-23-2020 03:54 PM
I replaced both dripless this past spring (22 years old). The space is tight, the coupler bolts needed to be heated, giant nut at the end of the 1 3/4" shaft, replaced cutlass bearings, took couplers, shafts & props all in for balancing. '98 DA 450
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