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- Re: Our 1999 450 DA is leaking water...
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Our 1999 450 DA is leaking water...
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09-08-2021 03:04 PM
Our 1999 450 DA is leaking water through the starboard rudder shaft. I know it's been covered before but I couldn't fine the discussion history. The shaft is 1.5 " at the top. Leak is not too bad. The bilge pump can keep up but leaks never seem to fix themselves.
Q1. The parts dealer says the seal description shows 1.75". Is that correct?
Q2. Anyone know the seal kit P/N and where to purchase it? (I have 803734)
Q3. How difficult to do it yourself?
Q4. Is it possible to do it while the boat is in the water?
I appreciate any and all help.
5 REPLIES 5
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09-08-2021 09:04 PM
Assuming your rudder block is similar to the one on my 2000 380DA, except larger.
The linked image shows the packing nut and the packing. There is also a "narrow" lock nut, about ¼" thick.
These two nuts are threaded onto the rudder block. The rudder passes through this assembly, through an upper support bar and it is all retained by hardware and safety hardware.
There is no way I would consider disassembly / replacement on a floating boat.
It is possible to replace the packing w/o rudder removal, as the packing has a square cross section and it may be cut to length and fitted into the cap.
The packing should be cut on 45°, not 90°. The joints for the packing layers must not be aligned.
If the rudder is removed, when I replace mine I use an automotive jack underneath the rudder to force it tightly into the rudder block prior to tightening the retention hardware. I do not want the rudder clanking up and down when operating the boat.
When I replaced my packing I purchased an assembly, w/ the layers already formed into the correct shape. I think the shape / assembly was maintained by hardened wax.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49447435676_4230445927_c.jpg
All that being said, has tightening the packing nut been tried to slow / stop the leak? It may be that a simple adjustment fixes the problem.
When I had mine apart I cleaned the threads to permit normal adjustment effort. On mine, I use my adjustable oversize wrench to loosen the lock nut, then use it to adjust the packing nut, then snug the locking nut back into position.
The linked image shows the packing nut and the packing. There is also a "narrow" lock nut, about ¼" thick.
These two nuts are threaded onto the rudder block. The rudder passes through this assembly, through an upper support bar and it is all retained by hardware and safety hardware.
There is no way I would consider disassembly / replacement on a floating boat.
It is possible to replace the packing w/o rudder removal, as the packing has a square cross section and it may be cut to length and fitted into the cap.
The packing should be cut on 45°, not 90°. The joints for the packing layers must not be aligned.
If the rudder is removed, when I replace mine I use an automotive jack underneath the rudder to force it tightly into the rudder block prior to tightening the retention hardware. I do not want the rudder clanking up and down when operating the boat.
When I replaced my packing I purchased an assembly, w/ the layers already formed into the correct shape. I think the shape / assembly was maintained by hardened wax.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49447435676_4230445927_c.jpg
All that being said, has tightening the packing nut been tried to slow / stop the leak? It may be that a simple adjustment fixes the problem.
When I had mine apart I cleaned the threads to permit normal adjustment effort. On mine, I use my adjustable oversize wrench to loosen the lock nut, then use it to adjust the packing nut, then snug the locking nut back into position.
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09-09-2021 08:10 AM
Uless you have done this before, This isn't a good one to be your first rudder repacking job. The stbd side of a 450DA you will have the generator, the generator battery, the oil change system, all in your way. The tendency will be to remove the rudder arm and support and on the 450DA that is what holds the rudder in the boat., so don't, unless you have haued the boat out of the water and can walk under the boat and pickup the rudder if it falls out.
On a 20 year old boat, the packing is very likely dried out and has already been tighten several times, so I'd replace the packing on both sides while you are doing it. You may find that the rudder shafts are scored where the packing has been over tightened. If that is the case, you won't get the leak to stop until you remove the rudders and polish the rudder posts or shafts and repack the glands.
On my 450DA we ordered the packing kits from Buck Algonquin, the stuffing box manufacturer. It took a few days longer but the packing was fresh and had not been sitting in a warehouse for a long period of time.
On a 20 year old boat, the packing is very likely dried out and has already been tighten several times, so I'd replace the packing on both sides while you are doing it. You may find that the rudder shafts are scored where the packing has been over tightened. If that is the case, you won't get the leak to stop until you remove the rudders and polish the rudder posts or shafts and repack the glands.
On my 450DA we ordered the packing kits from Buck Algonquin, the stuffing box manufacturer. It took a few days longer but the packing was fresh and had not been sitting in a warehouse for a long period of time.
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09-13-2021 10:21 AM
Just an update. I tried the simple thing first. I tightened the packing nut. It was hand tight only. It was still wicking water but very minimally. Checked the starboard bilge where the water accumulates two days later and there was about two tablespoons of water. Essentially next to nothing. It had been filling up in a matter of hours so I'm considering it fixed for now. I plan on ordering a couple of packing kits when they are needed.
Thanks for all the input
Thanks for all the input
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09-13-2021 10:33 AM
Thanks for the update!
Great news.
Don't forget to snug the jam nut so normal back and forth movement doesn't lead to the packing nut loosening / leaking.
Great news.
Don't forget to snug the jam nut so normal back and forth movement doesn't lead to the packing nut loosening / leaking.
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10-03-2021 11:56 AM
Bottom job on recent haul out found stbd rudder shaft leaking bilge water onto the ground. Was not the shaft but the flange bolted to the bottom that the shaft comes through. Had both rudders dropped, cleaned, and resealed the flanges, and repacked the seals. Also replaced both raw water seacocks while on the hard. Labor intensive, $$.
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