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Hello readersI have a 2006 340DA...
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06-06-2022 05:43 PM
Hello readersI have a 2006 340DA Searay cruiser on which I must replace the 1.5" V- drive prop shaft and prop. Anyone know the current part number for the dripless shaft seal, or for a new internals for the seal? No markings that I can see, and searching under the Searay part number yields nada.
12 REPLIES 12
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06-08-2022 04:43 AM
My guess is the boat is using the Tides SureSeal, unless it has been swapped by a prior owner.
https://www.tidesmarine.com/sureseal/sure_vs_strong#:~:text=The%20StrongSeal%20has%20a%20stainless,removable%20Cap%20and%20Split%20Washer.
There should already be a spare seal on the shaft in a seal carrier.
When I change my seals I discard the active seal, move the spare to active and put a new into the spare location.
When I remove / replace the shafts / seals on my boat I use a seal protector to ensure the keyway does not damage the seal.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50029500446_79694b4984_z.jpg
Each time I install a new seal I slightly shift the dripless seal carrier so it rides at a different place on the shaft, marking the hull tube so I know the locations used.
When I remove the shafts I use a step ladder to support the detached shaft for polishing. I use strips of sandpaper and a random back / forth and up / down movement to remove marks, such as from the prior shaft seal placement.
Also, long ago I used coarse / medium / fine lapping compound on the props and couplers, also cross lapping, to change from an original horrible contact pattern to a uniform contact, along w/ "impossible" to remove to now normal removal effort.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4654/40507538381_b0a121e3d3_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/4648/40507538291_b2ee90f6bb_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/4675/40465168122_4aaf8dffd9_c.jpg
Note that if the dripless seal carriers are replaced, the original parts had just a single port. When I changed mine I used parts w/ dual ports, with a crossover hose, so now I can safely operate, even with one engine disabled.
Don't forget to include an annual check on the dripless seal carrier. With the hose removed and the port blocked verify normal / sufficient water flow provided by the idling engine. With the engine off and the port unblocked verify unimpeded raw water intrusion backwards through the seal.
https://www.tidesmarine.com/sureseal/sure_vs_strong#:~:text=The%20StrongSeal%20has%20a%20stainless,removable%20Cap%20and%20Split%20Washer.
There should already be a spare seal on the shaft in a seal carrier.
When I change my seals I discard the active seal, move the spare to active and put a new into the spare location.
When I remove / replace the shafts / seals on my boat I use a seal protector to ensure the keyway does not damage the seal.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50029500446_79694b4984_z.jpg
Each time I install a new seal I slightly shift the dripless seal carrier so it rides at a different place on the shaft, marking the hull tube so I know the locations used.
When I remove the shafts I use a step ladder to support the detached shaft for polishing. I use strips of sandpaper and a random back / forth and up / down movement to remove marks, such as from the prior shaft seal placement.
Also, long ago I used coarse / medium / fine lapping compound on the props and couplers, also cross lapping, to change from an original horrible contact pattern to a uniform contact, along w/ "impossible" to remove to now normal removal effort.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4654/40507538381_b0a121e3d3_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/4648/40507538291_b2ee90f6bb_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/4675/40465168122_4aaf8dffd9_c.jpg
Note that if the dripless seal carriers are replaced, the original parts had just a single port. When I changed mine I used parts w/ dual ports, with a crossover hose, so now I can safely operate, even with one engine disabled.
Don't forget to include an annual check on the dripless seal carrier. With the hose removed and the port blocked verify normal / sufficient water flow provided by the idling engine. With the engine off and the port unblocked verify unimpeded raw water intrusion backwards through the seal.
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06-08-2022 02:58 PM
Thanks so much for the detailed information. All great advice!
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06-11-2022 07:07 PM
Agree with everything wingless shared. Its the correct way to care for an maintain your factory original Tides seals. I would add that dual water injection ports are not needed on the seal itself to run on a single engine. The crossover line can be installed with only one port on each seal. I'm now on my 2nd boat with Tides seals and have decided to replace them with PSS Pro seals to improve reliability and reduce maintenance. The new PSS PRO seals have a reinforced silicone bellow that is rated for 10 year service life, a robust safety clamp to prevent the seal from backing off should the set screws come lose or fail and a carbon stator (as with the original PSS seals) that requires no maintenance for the life of the seal (>10 years). My marina has had a lot of experience with both and I've talked to other Sea Ray owners before making this decision. Both are good products.
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06-12-2022 03:33 AM
@Motorvader, how is a crossover line plumbed when a dripless seal only has a single port?
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06-12-2022 06:56 AM
Thanks for the detailed and very good advice. I'll check out the seal you recommend.
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06-12-2022 07:24 AM
I'm not sure wingless but I'm about to find out. The marina service manager assured me they can plumb a cross over without the 2nd port although he didn't explain how. My Tides seals are getting replaced with PSS PRO's next week and I will ask them to take a photo of the final installation with crossover in place. I suspect they'll use T-fittings a few inches away from the seal. He claims the purpose of 2nd port on the Tides is to improve cooling and help prevent blockage due to debris (sand, silk, etc.) in the raw water. The cost of the Tides or PSS seals themselves is fairly reasonable. The biggest part of the total cost of ownership is the labor to install and maintain them due to their difficult location under the v-drive and engine oil pan. Since my manifolds and risers are off the tech can access them without lifting the engine and transmission. This project would have been far more costly if I weren't replacing all of the manifolds and risers at the same time.
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06-12-2022 07:35 AM
Best of luck keokukone regardless of which way you go! I'm in the process of refitting and plan to do a fair amount of long distance cruising (Tampa to Key West and hopefully Dry Tortugas). My focus is on improving reliability and reducing maintenance with every project I put money into and my marina's service manager is providing helpful guidance along the way. Changing over to PSS seals was his idea - after looking into further it we agreed the PSS PROs were the way to go for what I wanted to do with the boat. I trust the guy - he worked up a cost of ownership estimate that convinced me it wasn't worth the cost to upgrade my cooling system to have FWC cooled manifolds. My heat exchangers were in great shape (boat used in fresh water most of its life) and he sent them out for cleaning, All total he save me $10K which is paying for a lot of other service work. He's an ex-Marinemax guy and very knowledgeable.
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06-20-2022 10:40 AM
In the same vein, on the crossover (whichever method you use, one or two ports) I installed, midway on the crossover, a "T" with a pigtail and a valve at the end of the pigtail. The T-valve allows me to verify I have water flow between the engines. I lost a shaft seals once as it went dry due to a blockage. This is the best way to verify water flow without having to contort oneself to check down at the shaft seal itself.
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06-20-2022 12:35 PM
The only (most significant) caution for custom below-waterline solutions is that every single below-waterline part on the boat has a marine UL rating.
In the unlikely event that the boat should ever come to rest on the sea floor bottom, then the insurance company will hire an investigator to determine the root cause(s) for the failure.
If there is a way the insurance company can pinpoint the loss cause to an unapproved owner modification so they won't have to pay, and the tee w/ valve contributed to the loss then that will adversely affect the owner recouping for the damage / loss.
A properly installed UL approved dual port dripless seal does not have that insurance coverage risk.
FWIW, my boat is maintained, modified and upgraded to be fully compliant w/ all applicable standards.
In the unlikely event that the boat should ever come to rest on the sea floor bottom, then the insurance company will hire an investigator to determine the root cause(s) for the failure.
If there is a way the insurance company can pinpoint the loss cause to an unapproved owner modification so they won't have to pay, and the tee w/ valve contributed to the loss then that will adversely affect the owner recouping for the damage / loss.
A properly installed UL approved dual port dripless seal does not have that insurance coverage risk.
FWIW, my boat is maintained, modified and upgraded to be fully compliant w/ all applicable standards.
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06-20-2022 02:03 PM
Very good point and need to be given significant consideration. I think in he case of what I outlined the cross over modification was done using all marine grade parts; the hose came with Tides wet seal kit, the "T' is brass with marine SS clamps (two on each end of the barbed fitting). So I am comfortable with he modification. If it boat ends up on the bottom, as you say, it certainly will not be a result of adding a "T". I was remiss in mentioning, the termination point of pigtail line connect to the crossover line is secured in the bilge 24" above the waterline. So, if the valve on the end were to fail or not be closed entirely, there will be no water flowing into he bilge when the engines are not running. Your point is very valid...
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06-20-2022 05:49 PM
Wingless, can you share the UL standard number that applies to marine dripless shaft seals and their installation?
I want to make sure the marina is aware of this. My initial thought was ABYC and NMMA standards would be more applicable in this area.
I want to make sure the marina is aware of this. My initial thought was ABYC and NMMA standards would be more applicable in this area.
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06-20-2022 06:07 PM
As an example, the Tides Marine Sure Seal uses ABS for the certification.
https://www.tidesmarine.com/pdf/ABS/TidesFSK-ABS.pdf
Other parts I've purchased, such as seacocks have a UL label attached.
My guess is the MFG will select an appropriate agency to perform testing to the applicable standard and provide the certificate, like has been linked here.
https://www.tidesmarine.com/pdf/ABS/TidesFSK-ABS.pdf
Other parts I've purchased, such as seacocks have a UL label attached.
My guess is the MFG will select an appropriate agency to perform testing to the applicable standard and provide the certificate, like has been linked here.
